HomeLoans.net for 18k – I am Pissed!
By Alan on Apr 28, 2009 in Domain Auctions
If any other finance domain with keywords like this sells for 18k in this economy or not you should all pack your freaking bags and go back to school!!
Do any of you understand lead generation or are all your plans wrapped up around Adsense Ads?
How many of you were, are or know a mortgage broker?
The sale of this domain at Latona’s auction at the TRAFFIC convention should make all of you turn upside down and say what the hell was I thinking. I am so pissed about this sale (VERY HAPPY for the buyer) that I need to give some of you a basic 101 class in math.
$18,000 … shit, less than shit for many of you.
If you are serious about development and have an iota of how to SEO correctly and put together a lead gen site (like insurancequote.com) this domain would rocket to the top of search engines. In fact, I would be willing to even say that it would make it to the top 5 in MSN purely because homeloans.com does not even resolve and MSN favors matching keyword domains heavier than Google.
So – you have a top domain selling for one of the MAIN lead generation industries of the economy. Housing market slow or not people are still getting mortgages day after day and unless you know something I don’t mortgages will never end – People will always need them.
How about that lesson in Math?
For Domainers
$18,000
$40 revenue per lead – You need to generate 450 leads over the lifetime of this domain to breakeven. Yes, just over 1 a day for the next year then you have an annuity for life.
For End Users
Have a mortgage license?
3 mortgages. Yes, 3 freaking mortgages to break even.
SOOO many mortgage brokers specialize and close $500,000 mortgages day after day. You should net around 6k on a $500,000 mortgage as a broker (after the split and assuming 2 points which is average) – don’t like .. then make it 6 mortgages .. big fucking deal. You have an annuity for life.
If I knew this domain was in auction believe me I would have paid a lot more than $18,000 and I’m pissed I didn’t see it. Not sure if it was a late addition but man – it was not there when I looked a week ago .. or maybe it way … I just missed it.
Domainers talk about developing and talk about how much money they are making but this sale, this very sale goes to show that either (a) many have no freaking idea how to develop anything more than a mini-site with some Adsense Ads and (b) many – even auction houses (which to their credit is not always their job – the platform, the event is their job) are too lazy to contact end users and have NO IDEA how to translate the value of such a great domain to main street.
If any of you were salespeople before .. good salespeople … you could walk into an office and sell $1,000 worth of goods by selling the manager on how much benefit your product could bring in terms of savings, increased productivity and more.
Why the hell can’t we do this with domains like this?
Companies are still spending money – banks are still advertising – mortgage companies are alive believe it or not.
Are so many people caught up in the circle of selling to one another that a brick wall is formed where development is only what domainer A tells domainer B?
Do we have NO confidence in our ability to sell to end users that you have to gauge value based on what another domainer would pay?
NAMES like this are GOLD but apparently many of you have no idea what gold looks like.
Only 2 weeks ago I wrote about the case of MortgageCalculator.net where the owner SEO’s correctly and bang .. 20,000 or more visitors EVERY month. Sure, somebody commented about the back links but I had that domain for 7 years and very few back links ever existed. Most back links were formed after the site was live.
Spend $18,000 and in six months have even a quarter of that traffic coming from home loan traffic and you break even in 30 or 60 days.
Seriously, the math here is so insane. It is NOT long term math !!!
Not a 5 year plan – not a 10 year plan – maybe a 1 year plan at the MOST!
For those domainers who truly have no idea but only to listen to the industry leaders for guidance – Was it not Frank Schilling who said that homeloans.com – in his opinion – was worth maybe $3-5 million?
And the .net is worth 18k?
Jesus – I need to go confession tonight because I am cursing at everyone and for a non-practicing Catholic boy this is a BIG thing.
This sale is embarrassing for you, for the industry and more importantly for your ability to understand development. Hell, where were the mini-site SEO experts – these guys (who supposedly know SEO) had to see a value much more than 18k in this domain.
As I have said many times over …
The INDUSTRY is BIGGER and better than ALL of us.
If we can not showcase and find end users for PREMIUM domains like HomeLoans.net then we all need to go back in to our hole and rethink why the hell we are here and what we need to do to move forward.
For those who are thinking I am being negative about the industry in general I am NOT – in fact, we are more bullish on domains than ANY OTHER investment right now – but I am kicking you all for letting this go. Domains like this do not come around often and if anyone .. anyone .. disagrees with my math about how to make your money back with this domain then just close your browser and go home as I do not have the time of day to even speak with you.
There is no over analysis needed – 18k is a pittance for this name.
Shame on all of you, Shame on the auction house, Shame on me.
Have nothing else to say on this.
May the Adsense gods cut your knees off one day and then you shall realize what fools are for not learning to develop quicker.
—————————————-
P.S. If any of you want to come back but wait its a .net … just be quiet and read a book about developing.
Acro | Apr 28, 2009 | Reply
I understand your frustration, however I’ve already expanded on the reason at my blog – therefore I am not surprised. It’s a repeat of the GeoDomains auction results. The “circle of trust” has grown too tight; there are not enough leads to sell to end-users when those who attend domain conference auctions are the same domain investors, over and over. To get high prices, one needs to hunt down end-users that have very little or nothing at all to do with the domain industry.
Alan | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
Acro – right on, actually read your article a few days back – spot on.
Here’s the link for anyone to read another perspective on this
wannadevelop.com | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
As for the domain, it is a category killer, and any SEO / developer would of killed to have it for low – mid $xx,xxx but the auction houses obviously don’t do a good enough job at generating buzz and interest outside of the domain industry.
The domainer community is tiny… A few hundred deep
Snoopy | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
.net prices have been hit very hardly lately, the sale doesn’t surprise me much though it is probably a bit lower than I would have guessed.
The very top end financial .net’s were around 100k at the peak in 2007 like creditcards.net which sold for $111k and I think prices for top .net’s have fallen about 80% since from the sales I have seen lately.
When Frank Schilling said $3-5million for .com that was at the peak of the boom. Today it is probably worth under $2million.
Homeloans.net might have cracked 100k then, not today however. At the end of the day this name will required a lot of development work to pay its way, it is not a slam dunk name in view, they have bought themselves a project.
Namecake | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
I’ve seen a lot of talk about development of domains recently as if it’s an easy thing. This couldn’t be further from the truth. If you are going to do the job properly – it’s hard work. I’m currently working on my biggest project to date (actually it dwarfs anything i have done before) and if i’m going to be honest it’s almost a full time job. But this is what you’re going to have to do if you develop something properly and i sadly don’t think most domainers want to put this sort of effort in. They’ll continue looking for the easy options. It’s also worth remembering that quite a few people have portfolios comprising of 100′s of names – so theres the issue of what to do with the others.
michael berkens | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
You missed it.
It was in the published list
Ross | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
If you had read my blog or some of the other blogs around the industry this name popped up quite frequently… Was one of my tops picks especially at that price.
A / Ross, I must have been sleepwalking this week – will bookmark your blog
Steven | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
Alan,
I hear what your saying. Under the theory you presented about development wouldn’t other extensions work equally as well for lead generation and SEO placement. Why pay a premium for a .net when other alternatives are out there for signifigantly less?
Alan | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
Steven,
The reason people pay premiums for .com, .net and .org’s is because people already know these extensions and you don’t have users saying .. hmmm, homeloans.whatwasthatagain?
Owners of these names have built in brand recognition from the get go.
the term “home loans” is probably one of the top 500 keywords in ALL searches of the internet, up there with real estate, weather, sex, mortgage etc.
Using the homeloans.net example all extensions are gone regardless – from .com to .de. Proof shows you can SEO many extensions right but when they are all gone for a particular domain it makes the ones come available even more attractive.
Sammy Ashouri | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
Had I not been wrapped up in a bunch of other projects, I was going to bid on this. Definitely a freakin’ awesome deal. You figure “work hard at the site” and you create a business for $20K.
Was willing to put in the effort. This name should explode if developed properly.
Alan | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
Sammy – you get it … “work hard at the site and you create a business for $20K”
Even put 30k in for development which is far more than you need … a lifetime of revenue for pennies – still unbelievable to me
Daniel Sanchez | Apr 29, 2009 | Reply
I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw the final sale price either, whomever the buyer is, run with it! I snagged a domain in a smaller industry for half this price last month, and it’s all because people are lazy and don’t contact end users.
Good rant! haha
Wussa | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
Love .nets and I understand your ranting. Though I predict at normal time it would sell mid $xx,xxx, this price is “normal” at this time “of grabbing great deals”.
Sure a bit of development would have been easy for a keyword amassing around 11M searches per month however not many will dare to take the “risk”.
John Colascione | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
That’s too bad… Now does not seem like the time to sell anything other than premium .com’s and I’m not even sure if it’s the best time to sell those…. SEO for the term on this domain should have been pretty easy… the buyer definetly did get themselves a project, but with a little hard work, that project is bound to pay off hansomly..
Stephen Douglas | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
H*ll yeah, dude. Excellent rant. Killer.
I was already screaming about “incestuous” domain selling back in 2006. It’s the end users who will dictate the full value of our domains.
And yes, this price definitely shows the new “value” of .net domains. I also was telling people that .org domains are more valuable than .net domains in 2007. Problem is, .net is not recognized or promoted by any company other than internet related companies. However, .org domains are promoted intensely by thousands of recognized non-profit companies, including the Red Cross.
Finally, I didn’t get any notice on this domain, or I missed it too. But is it really worth more than $18k? I think it might be worth three times as much, but the SEO guys can see more value in it than the domainers who are thinking “if I buy this domain, all the typeins are going to the .com”.
Bottom line, this domain was bought for cheap, even though it is a .net.
SOLUTION: (FIFTH TIME I’VE POSTED THIS):
Hold category domain auctions, with domains falling into a particular category. And the solution to getting the best prices with a “theme” auction? The auction house spending at least $5000 to promote the domain within all the industry publications. That’s right, spend a few dollars to invite the end users who fit the “theme” to come or login to bid on domains that meet their prodservs.
How hard is that to figure out? Really? Come on… It was a no-brainer for me in 2006, and in 2009, it should be a reality. Why isn’t it?
Nice article bro. Hand them their *ss in a handbag.
eric rice | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
Except that in 9 times out of 10 the development of the domain flops and you get no leads. so it is best case scenario you are talking about.
Stephen Douglas | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
@ eric
Bro, what are you talking about? Expand on your comments a little, which I know you hate to do, but you have to give details and direct your comments so we know who and what you’re directing your expertise to.
other than that, I can beat you down the Rogue River in a kayak.
Alan | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
Eric,
You are right and for 9 out of 10 domainers it probably would be a failing project but I hope to give the industry a little credit. since we are in 2009 .. a DECADE after affiliate programs opened up .. that at least 10% of domainers would know how to make a lousy 18k with this name.
Now add the people who develop mortgage websites and already have the system down but are NOT part of this domainer cycle we all have come to know. These people – and there are hundreds, if not thousands of these people could easily see a value in 18k.
Where are those people?
type in mortgage terms in google .. many of the users are to you left, to your right and upside down. It does not take the services of an ex-KGB officer to find many of them.
Let’s put it this way – before I sold our mortgage system off we were doing over $150,000 a month in just selling leads. Then you add the ad revenue, internal revenue from leads we processed and more – the point being is we were not #1 – there were many people ahead of us and LOT more behind but still DOING great numbers. We did not have a brand – we had a generic domain like this.
There are LOTS of buyers for a name like this but somewhere along the line something failed.
I know I missed it and funny enough we had a backorder at Snap on this name for years but it wasn’t them doing the auction so whenever the notice was given I missed the boat but the industry missed a great chance to sell a great domain.
Lead generation and affiliate advertising is the single most successful business model on the web – If names like this can not sell then the auction houses need to inject some fresh marketing blood.
In the evolution of development domainers will go from parking to Adsense to Affiliate Programs to Direct End User Sales.
IMO 90% of domainers have yet to pass go and collect $200 based on this sale.
Jay Lohmann | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
As someone who runs a website development firm, let me tell you that building a simple 10-page Lead Gen site using Joomla, the friendliest SEO platform out there, would cost no more than $15k, and would include SEO – but NOT SEM.
Getting a site up and running is not that difficult.
OR, put a couple hundred bucks down a month on a solid directory platform like eDirectory.com, Databanq.com, or others and you’re off to the races in DAYS!
OR, maybe domainers should quit whining about development costs and form partnerships. Yeah, you lose $$$ in the long run, but you also form a team that can continue to develop additional properties. There are very few ideas that haven’t been developed already. I bet if the new owner of HomeLoans.net approached Steve Lombardi at ExpertHubs.com, he’d get an audience with the man.
However, let me say for the record, that your rant should have also covered the double tap of Mortuary/Mortuaries. $12.5k per…for the ONLY event guaranteed in life? THAT was the steal of the decade. Get a good designer and throw some directory software at it and you’re about done. I bet that industry is an easy SEO/SEM nut to crack.
@Acro – I have been screaming that for years. Only GD and RL effectively advertising outside the domain circle.
@Alan/@Steve – You both make valid points. The extension really doesn’t weigh much in SEO (I got a .ws up on the first page for “Freelance Writer” and others, but there is definite recognition value in TLDs.
@John – no doubt a scary time for sellers, but great for buying! Homeloans.net can be very simple to develop. Domainers make it way too difficult – or at least perceive it as such. Get a simple site in the air and start getting links and age on your site. You can always re-design (keep your URL structure) at a late date as traffic increases.
@Stephen – HA! I saw a TV commercial last night during prime time playoff basketball for http://www.SanDiego.org and about shit my pants! Extension be damned! And they rank first for “San Diego”. I think the adoption of other extensions is inevitable. The majority of small business owners would rather have the keywords that describe their business in another extension (.US is a big sleeper) than pay big bucks for the .com. That is the largest growing market, pay attention to it.
And gentlemen…let’s all call it like it is. I doubt most of us “missed” this domain or ‘were’ gonna bid on it but….. If you missed it, shame on you, you self-proclaimed bad ass domainer. I think we ALL thought this name was going for much higher than it did and assumed we’d be priced out of the bidding. We have all been rocked by the economy and watching spending. WE ARE the inner circle who is not buying domains for big bucks. You expect the uneducated consumer to throw a ton of money at a domain? Lets not be hypocrates. It is up to us and the auctions to educate main street, and the faster the better. This was an extremely smart purchase and kudos to all who continue to take advantage of this market.
I have a domain sales letter that has worked for several people – it’s free. Just ask.
J. A. Lohmann
214.679.9673
––––––––––––––
Co-Founder / Partner
AdvertisingAndDesign.net
Dallas / Colorado
––––––––––––––
LinkedIn.com/in/JayLohmann
+5200
––––––––––––––
Twitter.com/FreelanceNation
@FreelanceNation
Alan | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
Jay .. great comments and yes, shame on me. I did miss this one – I’ve already spoke to a couple big buyers this morning and they are saying the same thing.
Many of us get bombarded with names for sale from email newsletters, drop lists and more its almost like wait for auction day to look at the catalog since there are so many more before that.
Rick’s auctions were never of much interest to me before but the lesson learned here is I am always going to read his auction lists from now on!
eric rice | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
If it was as easy as buy domain name, create site, get leads, sell leads and retire then everyone would do it.
Do not get me wrong, it is a good buy but many domains that were good buys are not making money because development is HARD.
Alan | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
Eric,
It’s not easy – but there are at least 1,000 people who would say it is – probably a LOT more.
Remember, this sport has many teams. While many domainers were “domaining” back in 2002 there was a whole other team of people developing.
Unfortunately that team never got the flyer about this domain sale.
Steve | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
Im happy with the sale.. Sure it could have reached higher. thats the name of the auction game. I did send out hundreds of emails to lenders and brokers regarding the auction. End users just arent up to par on values after 13 years, of me doing this anyway. I is still SecondMortgages.com up in Rick L’s Silent auction its a deal at the price just on points alone doing second mortgages you could reach the reserve in no time. Also I have been taking bids on HomeEquityLoans.org, this is a very nice keyword rich high paying click thru domain and as another mentioned .org is much more reckognized than .net .. the last offer is 11.7K email me if you want in on this one,no excuses this time
Steve..
Alan | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
Steve,
Class act response!!
You can always get more and that is the risk you take with an auction (we have lost money on a few sales but also won big on others so yes – its just the game)
My comments and my distaste for the price of this name have been geared toward the industry as a whole for basically talking about development but missing an opportunity like this (myself included).
Another article is coming on this topic so people better understand where I am going – my only goal is for this industry to evolve faster and this sale knocked my idea of where we are back about 5 years.
I’ll PM you privately.
Dominik Mueller | May 1, 2009 | Reply
The sale doesn’t surprise me at all. The market has been going down and domainers are a cheap bunch of people. (To be honest, when it comes to domaining, I’ve become cheap too.)
If you want to sell a domain at high prices in today’s market you have to move your arse and start contacting end users, because the majority of domainers is not willing to take risks anymore.
I agree with Acro and I would probably have written a similar post if he hadn’t already: You can’t sell the same domains back and forth within the domain industry forever. At one point there must be an end user standing at the end of the line or the market values of domains will ultimately go down.
There was too much hype in the domain industry for years… You couldn’t expect this to go on forever. The bubble has burst and I think this is important for the industry to mature. Maybe domains will be handled more professionally and similar to other investments from now on.
Stephen Douglas | May 1, 2009 | Reply
@Jay – One of the best comments I’ve ever read… Jay is spot on.
@Eric my cousin – Dude, lots of people are developing their domains successfully and making money. Just because you aren’t doing it doesn’t mean it can’t or isn’t happening. WhyPark is the foundation of this process, and with Parked.com behind them, domains that make nothing at landing pages are now poised to make “something”. And depending on how much you want to spend to develop, can make a lot more.
I am a fan of directories. I’ve tested some direct product and prices, and have done marketing surveys to see whether my domain website would at least pay back the cost of having a directory website built and managed. Do the homework first, check to see who your customers will be, whether they would bite at your directory price listing, and then go for it, or not.
Development today is NOT some big bugaboo or the monster under Elliot’s bed (I heard that Elliot actually controls all monsters, so be nice to him. I just gave some guys at a store today his blog address and said “get into domain investing, start here first”. I was sure to add that they needed to check Elliots blog roll…cuz I’m on it. whew)
Seriously, development is NOT that hard, nor expensive, but you need to do what any businessman would do starting a new business – Find your market, be sure you have your price point set, check your ROI expectations, and then jump in. One domain at a time for full development, but first go to Whypark to get the foundations for those domain buildouts prepared for their special ‘attention’ later.
Of course, you can contact me at my blog for more info on Whypark, and pick up some special advice from me, Al Franken.
By the way, I have no idea what the name is of the owner of this blog, isn’t that sad? I can’t find it anywhere on his blog! Even in the “about us” section. Why do bloggers who want to succeed in this industry hide their real names? I probably know, but forgot, because the blogger isn’t promoting their name enough. Come out of the shadows!
But, whoever runs this blog, if they email me and tell me their name (or remind me, I’m getting old), I’ll trade links.
Peace
Michael | Jul 6, 2009 | Reply
Alan, I totally agree with you. When I saw the results of the sale I damn near choked on my coffee…